# Team Topologies: Organizing Business & Technology Teams w/ authors Matthew Skelton & Manuel Pais | Dev Interrupted Powered by LinearB > Authors Matthew Skelton and Manuel Pais discuss the details of their highly-acclaimed book, Team Topologies. _This is a markdown rendering of a live HTML page on linearb.io, generated for AI/LLM consumption — it is not a markdown-only site. To get the full HTML page instead, request this URL with an explicit `Accept: text/html` header (no wildcard, no markdown preference)._ ```json { "@context": "https://schema.org", "@type": "PodcastEpisode", "name": "Team Topologies: Organizing Business & Technology Teams w/ authors Matthew Skelton & Manuel Pais", "description": "Authors Matthew Skelton and Manuel Pais discuss the details of their highly-acclaimed book, Team Topologies.", "url": "https://linearb.io/dev-interrupted/podcast/team-topologies-organizing-business-technology-teams", "datePublished": "2023-03-21T03:20:18.000Z", "partOfSeries": { "@type": "PodcastSeries", "name": "Dev Interrupted", "url": "https://linearb.io/dev-interrupted/podcasts" }, "actor": { "@type": "Person", "name": "Matthew Skelton & Manuel Pais", "jobTitle": "Authors of Team Topologies ", "worksFor": { "@type": "Organization", "name": "Organizing Business and Technology Teams for Fast Flow" } } } ``` ```json { "@context": "https://schema.org", "@type": "BreadcrumbList", "itemListElement": [ { "@type": "ListItem", "position": 1, "name": "Home", "item": "https://linearb.io/" }, { "@type": "ListItem", "position": 2, "name": "Dev Interrupted - Podcasts", "item": "https://linearb.io/dev-interrupted/podcasts" }, { "@type": "ListItem", "position": 3, "name": "Team Topologies: Organizing Business & Technology Teams w/ authors Matthew Skelton & Manuel Pais", "item": "https://linearb.io/dev-interrupted/podcast/team-topologies-organizing-business-technology-teams" } ] } ``` [Home](https://linearb.io/) / [Podcast](https://linearb.io/dev-interrupted/podcasts) / Team Topologies: Organizing Business & Technology Teams w/ authors Matthew Skelton & Manuel Pais # Team Topologies: Organizing Business & Technology Teams w/ authors Matthew Skelton & Manuel Pais By Matthew Skelton & Manuel Pais | March 21, 2023 ![Team_Topologies_Podcast_Card_b1a5b28182](https://assets.linearb.io/image/upload/c_limit,w_2560/f_auto/q_auto/v1/Team_Topologies_Podcast_Card_b1a5b28182?_a=BAVMn6ID0) Effective software teams are essential for any organization to deliver value continuously and sustainably. But how do you build the best team organization for your specific goals, culture, and needs? That's the question posed by authors Matthew Skelton and Manuel Pais in their highly-acclaimed book, Team Topologies: Organizing Business and Technology Teams for Fast Flow. On this week's episode of Dev Interrupted, we revisit Dan's 2021 conversation with Matthew and Manuel. Since first airing, their book has received broad recognition for its step-by-step advice, approach to team patterns and interactions, and compelling analysis of the communication pathways that lead to organizational success. ### Episode Highlights: * (1:58) Manuel's start in the organization design space * (5:02) Matthew's work in cybernetics * (9:38) Intro to Team Topologies * (17:28) Examples of team organization * (26:18) Practical first steps for organizational transformation * (33:14) Why high trust leads to fast flow * (36:46) How to know if your team has reached its cognitive load * (40:30) Understanding Conway's Law ###### **Want to cut code-review time by up to 40%? Add estimated review time to pull requests automatically!** gitStream is the free dev tool from LinearB that eliminates the No. 1 bottleneck in your team’s workflow: pull requests and code reviews. After reviewing the work of 2,000 dev teams, LinearB’s engineers and data scientists found that pickup times and code review were lasting 4 to 5 days longer than they should be. The good news is that they found these delays could be eliminated largely by adding estimated review time to pull requests! Learn more about how gitStream is making coding better [HERE](https://linearb.io/dev/gitstream/?utm%5Fsource=Dev%20Interrupted&utm%5Fmedium=referral[…]gitStream%20-%20Referral%20-%20Dev%20Interrupted%20Show%20Notes). [![Setup gitStream on your GitHub repo today](https://assets.linearb.io/uploads/gitstream-beta-cta-centered-2-1024x538.png)](https://linearb.io/dev/gitstream/?utm%5Fsource=Dev%20Interrupted&utm%5Fmedium=referral[…]gitStream%20-%20Referral%20-%20Dev%20Interrupted%20Show%20Notes) ## Real conversations with top engineering leaders Find us on [](https://www.linkedin.com/showcase/dev-interrupted/) [](https://devinterrupted.substack.com/) ## Your next listen [![Cover image for Why the traditional pull request has a target on its back | CircleCI’s Rob Zuber](https://assets.linearb.io/image/upload/c_limit,w_2560/f_auto/q_auto/v1/Blog_Comprehensive_DORA_Guide_2400x1256_70_8130b5ade1?_a=BAVMn6ID0)](https://linearb.io/dev-interrupted/podcast/circleci-rob-zuber-pull-request-ai-agent-cicd) Dev Interrupted [Why the traditional pull request has a target on its back | CircleCI’s Rob Zuber](https://linearb.io/dev-interrupted/podcast/circleci-rob-zuber-pull-request-ai-agent-cicd) CircleCI CTO Rob Zuber joins the show to discuss why the traditional pull request is struggling under the sheer volume of autonomous AI agents. 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Albert Strasheim, CTO at Rippling, joins Andrew Zigler to explain why agentic transformation starts with the... ## Structured data _Machine-readable metadata (JSON-LD) embedded in the page for search/AI context — not content rendered on the page itself._ ```json { "@context": "https://schema.org", "@type": "Organization", "name": "LinearB", "url": "https://linearb.io/", "logo": "https://assets.linearb.io/image/upload/v1715628027/logo-mark-lg.svg", "description": "LinearB is the engineering productivity platform that helps engineering leaders prove AI is improving throughput without sacrificing delivery confidence, flow efficiency, or developer experience.", "sameAs": [ "https://www.linkedin.com/company/linearb" ], "award": [ { "@type": "Award", "name": "LinearB is a Leader in the 2026 Gartner® Magic Quadrant™ for Developer Productivity Insight Platforms", "dateAwarded": "2026", "awardedBy": { "@type": "Organization", "name": "Gartner®" } }, { "@type": "Award", "name": "Great Place to Work Certification", "dateAwarded": "2025-2027", "awardedBy": { "@type": "Organization", "name": "Great Place to Work" } }, { "@type": "Award", "name": "America's Best Startup Employers 2025", "dateAwarded": "2025", "awardedBy": { "@type": "Organization", "name": "Forbes Magazine" } } ], "hasCertification": [ { "@type": "Certification", "name": "SOC 1 Type 2" }, { "@type": "Certification", "name": "SOC 2 Type 2" }, { "@type": "Certification", "name": "GDPR Compliance certification" }, { "@type": "Certification", "name": "ISO 27001" } ] } ``` ## More on linearb.io ### Top navigation - [Book a Demo](https://linearb.io/book-a-demo) - [AI Code Reviews — Catch security risks, bugs, and spec mismatches](https://linearb.io/platform/ai-code-reviews) - [AI & Productivity Insights — See how AI tools affect cycle time and delivery speed](https://linearb.io/platform/ai-developer-productivity-insights) - [Measure AI Impact — Track AI adoption and tie it to delivery outcomes](https://linearb.io/use-case/measure-ai-impact) - [MCP Server — Chat with your data to spot patterns and boost output](https://linearb.io/platform/mcp-server) - [Resource Allocation — Cost initiatives and shape your investment strategy](https://linearb.io/platform/resource-allocation) - [Cost Capitalization — Capitalize engineering costs with audit-ready reports](https://linearb.io/platform/cost-capitalization) - [Dev Team Management — Set targets and tie throughput to business outcomes](https://linearb.io/platform/goals-and-reporting) - [DevOps Workflow Automation — Policy-based PR routing, approvals, and tests](https://linearb.io/platform/ai-workflow-governance) - [AI Powered Support — Unify AI and human code delivery in one clear view](https://linearb.io/use-case/ai-powered-support) - [Optimization — Surface friction with feedback and MCP insights](https://linearb.io/platform/developer-experience) - [Reporting — Spot what's working and what needs attention](https://linearb.io/use-case/measuring-developer-experience) - [Surveys — Turn developer feedback into actionable signals](https://linearb.io/platform/developer-surveys) - [Platform overview](https://linearb.io/platform/overview) - [Register now](https://linearb.io/event/engineering-productivity-gap) - [Customers](https://linearb.io/customers) - [Pricing](https://linearb.io/pricing) - [Why choose LinearB — Explore your data. 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